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" If I see any dirt bag looking at p0rn in a library full of kids I will personally punch them in the nuts. Probably more than once. Get the he11 out of our libraries you dirt bag SOB's! Go crawl out into the woods with a p0rn0 mag if that's how pathetic you are. "

" Councilman Frederick, what planet do you live on?

“I can't believe this,” Councilman Ben Frederick said. “It's appalling to think that there are tax dollars being used to subsidize this type of activity.”

You're appalled and can't believe THIS?? You'd have a stroke if you knew everything your kids are exposed to, courtesy of your tax dollars. Think prescribed medication. "

" Why should people who can afford p0rn be the only ones with access to it? Isn't that class discrimination? Poor people who can't afford the internet, girlie magazines (or manly magazines for people of that persuasion), and DVD players shouldn't be the only ones allowed to view p0rn. Set 'em up a private area and provide them with a box of tissues.

That sarcatically said, someone who, when they get a case of the hornies, thinks "PUBLIC LIBRARY", needs to be locked up and the key needs to be thrown away.


P.S.: When I attempted to submit my comment, the Argus website kicked it back to me. "Your name and/or comment contains inappropriate words, such as "p_rn". Please edit your message and then resubmit."

I changed the o's to zeros in certain word. If you're reading this it was accepted by the Argus "evil word filter".

Thanks Argus for helping keep our children safe from adult material at the library AND for keeping them safe from seeing a "p" and an "rn" with an "o" in between. "

" With all that I have read and a person I know that works at the Owosso Library ......... Mr Uptigrove where were you? These Ladies could have used a man to stand up for them and the families of children in this community. These Ladies should have NEVER had to stand up to a MAD man. These Ladies went home and still felt what they had to deal with at work. Is there a Real Man there to help these Women and Children NOW??? For the ones who feel that the workers are rude..... I hope you understand that they have dealt with more than they EVER should have. Could you go into work and deal with these pedafiles and unsupervised unruley children every day and no man to take the stand. These Women might as well worked 20 hours a day. They took it home with them. They know your frustration and discust of the behavior in the Library. I totally agree with the one writer. Call the cops. Let them deal with them. See how many times a convicted pedafile will frequent the Library after that. See how many times the unruley children come in when they are taken home, by a police officer, and their parents told about their behavior and make THEM accountable if their children continue. This all could be taken care of. It angers me to know that there are people out there who just simply don't care. I have felt sorry for all those Women who have worked there over the years. Now that Uptigrove is gone, I hope a Man will stand Up and not simply walk away from this problem that has been going on for a long time. Too Long!! Owosso Library needs to be taken back. Don't let this behavior continue. Fight for your local Library and the people who work there. I want to Thank You All for speaking up about this matter. It's an important issue. There are less and less places for families to spend quality time with their children and the Library shouldn't be given to the unruley. That made me think again....How many people do you know that will use the Library for a Baby Sitter?..... You wonder why the Librarians might not be so inthusiastic when you approach them ??? They are VERY hard working individuals that work there. They are your local teacher, mother,baby sitter, and law inforcement! Try taking on that job....In my eyes.....they don't get paid nearly enough. All of this can be dealt with and you will have a friendlier and safer place to go. I have sat here reading all this common sence and I just hope all of you don't let this drop. Fight back and get back your local Library. Just remember....the Ladies that work there can't do it by them selfs. They have had to see this happen too. Your just seeing the results of" NO action taken "writen all over their faces. Please help your local Librarians. Thank You All Again. I hope you all go to management and not your Lady Librarians. Show them you care. They see it every day and don't get a break from it. I wish for you all to have a wonderfull day. : ) "

" Wow, Mr.DeHaas. You must be loving all this free advertising! Buy an ad if you want to tout the virtues of your miracle product. You're showing very poor taste attacking our public libraries for your own benefit. "

" There are always going to be individuals who find their way on to questionable, distasteful, and even pornographic web sites. There is no software or filter that is 100% accurate and effective, especially when a person is tenancious and has a bit of computer knowledge. Ask any teacher in any school what they have to deal with to keep kids from getting on "off limits" sites during the school day.

And what about people, men or women, who need to do very important research on breast cancer or another sensitive health subject? Do we limit their freedom to seek information on topics that impact their lives? If there's an image of a breast on a computer screen, is that pornography?

If you are in a library and witness someone browsing at a site that offends you - talk to the librarian and have them do their job. They have the training to quietly and effectively deal with web surfers viewing offensive sites. If the person refuses, they can be banned or suspended from the library.

Libraries are public places - we need to remember that. They are not schools or daycares and librarians are not teachers or parents. If we all work together we can limit the impact of this unsavory behavior. Raising a big brouhaha and insulting the library and library staff isn't helping. Of course libraries are not defending the rights of perverts - they are defending all of our rights to information. Frankly, I'm more concerned about the Cialis and Viagra commercials on network television. "

" just another reason my kids or my family will not go to the public library in owosso.where is the common sense ? "

" You do see some pretty odd people using the computers at the library. And yes, there are definitely men and teen boys viewing pornography at the library computers. They are not very discrete about it. I can see how a young child wandering around as kids do would easily be able to see hard-core pornography at the library. The people viewing pornography at the library don't care about kids. It's sad that the librarians have to constantly be monitoring the computers to make sure little kids aren't able to get a free, unwarrented sex education. Couldn't the library set up a separate corner or room specifically for pervs who feel the need to view pornography in a public place? Incidentally, Shiawassee County has a very high number of sex offenders. Maybe the police should be visiting the library more often. "

" I too have been in the library sitting next to the person on the adult web site. I found it sickening. I was in there because my computer at home wasn't working at the time so I felt that I could go there and use it to do some work, after all I pay taxes for it. I sat next to the man on the adult web site, he had no filter or privacy screen on at all and it made me sick. He had to sit in a public place where teenagers sit in front of him while he looks at nude pictures of women. Come on parents, we all know that if he has to go to a public library to look at look at this stuff while our teenagers are in the same room with him that he has disgusting things on his mind. We are worried about pedophiles living next to us, what about them going to our library and being near our kids!!!! "

" Editor of the Argus Press, Sir:



As President of Covenant Eyes, Inc., an Owosso company that provides the best Internet filtering and accountability software in the world, I commend your paper for highlighting the pornography at our public library.

There are a few miss-statements and misconceptions in the article, however.

First, your article states that “Section 6 of the Michigan Library Privacy Act requires public libraries to either filter all of their public Internet computers, except at least one for use by adult… patrons, or to adopt and implement policies that prevent minors… from accessing sexually explicit materials on the Internet.” That is close, but not accurate, and the difference is important (and especially pertinent to Loxen’s granddaughter). The law (viewable at http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(12x0r1mtqklyrluospqxpz55))/mileg.aspx?page=getobject&objectName=mcl-397-606) states that the second choice is “utilizing a system or method that is designed to prevent a minor from viewing obscene matter or sexually explicit matter that is harmful to minors.” The difference between “accessing” and “viewing” is the important point. The law allows, and in fact requires libraries to prevent minors from viewing such material… which obviously our library is unable to do. In that case, the law is indeed open enough that it allows the library to filter ALL computers from such material.

The Nottawa Township Library of Centreville, Michigan, has an excellent policy that uses this liberty: Nottawa Township Library, in compliance with section 6 of the Michigan Library Privacy Act, 1982 PA 455, MCL 397.606 and the Federal Children Library Protection Act of 2000, has chosen to filter all public access computers. These Acts require all public libraries to adopt and enforce policies restricting access of minors to obscene matter or sexually explicit materials. Our library is concerned in particular with the well being of children and wishes to protect them from obscenity, pornography, and materials that could be construed as harmful. Children between the ages of 14 to 18 must have a permission form signed by a parent or guardian, and on file at the library, before they can access the Internet. The Library staff will issue an Internet Use card to this age group… Nottawa Township Library reserves the right to end an Internet session, or deny access to computer or Internet use, if the library staff believes inappropriate use has occurred. This behavior would include but is not limited to: misrepresenting oneself as someone else, seeking unauthorized access to passwords or data belonging to others, making unauthorized copies of copyrighted or licensed software or data, sending, receiving, or displaying text or graphics which may be reasonably construed as obscene.
(http://www.nottawatownshiplibrary.com/public_internet_policy.htm)

A second point from your article is the statement by Library Director Steven Flayer, “It’s not as widespread as some people believe.” This is a naïve statement in light of statistics which show that the average age of exposure to pornography for males is 8 years old! And without software to monitor usage of the Internet, how does he even know how widespread it is? It is obviously enough of a problem that all of the library workers with whom I have talked (past and present) say it is a very serious problem.

Thirdly, your article says that “While no law requires filtering, Flayer said that the … Liberay has looked into web content filters… and came up with several problems… One problem is that if anyone over age 18 requests that the filters be turned off, we have to turn them off.” Flayer obviously has not read the law. There absolutely is nothing on the books that requires a library to allow access to pornography… that is a fallacy.

Next, Flayer says, “Another problem is that filters are not 100 percent effective.” Wow! According to that logic, since kids can get alcohol and cigarettes anyway, we shouldn’t have laws restricting their use. And, he obviously has not tried Covenant Eyes’ filter. Covenant Eyes has an age-based sensitivity setting that allows different access for different ages, but blocks pornography for all sensitivity settings.

And finally, Flayer said there is “also a fear of a lawsuit for impeding free speech.” What fear when it would be in compliance with the requirements of the law?

Readers should also be aware of a bill that is pending, House Bill 4833, introduced April 28 by Rep. McMillen. That bill would amend the Library Privacy Act to require that all libraries use a filter that “blocks or restricts receipt of visual depictions that are obscene, child pornography, or harmful to minors. The library may disable the blocking or filtering software for use by a person 18 years of age or older to enable access for bona fide research or other lawful purposes.”

It is about time this community stands up to eliminate pornography from our library. Thank you to the Argus-Press for bringing this issue to the forefront!

Sincerely,

Ronald J. DeHaas
President, Covenant Eyes, Inc. "

" Dear Mr. Bruttell,

I read your story with interest. I had my children participate for the first time in the Summer Reading Program three years ago. We were in the children's library to do their reporting when my eight year old son came to me to tell me that two boys were looking at naked women on their computer. The children's computers are in a very visible area and anyone walking by could easily have seen what my son did. My son and I were upset and my family left immediately. My husband contacted Ken Uptigrove who said that the computers are supposed to be monitored by the librarians. It was very disturbing to me to have my son exposed to pornography when I was just trying to give him a love for reading. Mr. Uptigrove didn't seem to take the situation very seriously. I don't understand why the children's computers don't have filters. There is absolutely no reason that they need to be able to view this stuff.

Thank you for the article. Do you know if the children's computers now have filters? "

" Can't a separate room be set up for this? It would eliminate the free speech issue. A key that must be obtained from the librarian to access it (with ID) would keep minors out of it... And keep from having to label it the 'por n room' {LOL> filter wouldn't let me use the word. Irony, I love it.}or putting three big red X's on the door. This would be lol-worthy if it wasn't also somewhat disturbing... That peoples right to see it trumps peoples right to NOT see it.

(P.S. to the Library... technically the jury is still out on internet right to free speech, you are probably safe in limiting at this stage.) "

" Here we go again. Corunna dealt with this problem before it became a problem. Our district library lets it become a controversy Much like their requiring a drivers license in order to use their internet...Reason....They had a fight there once and feel showing a drivers license will stop this. The same management will deal with this.
Corunna is cleaner, friendler and the people nice. The books and people in Owosso are outdated. "

" Gramma, why do only perverts have constitutional rights? "